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02/25/2016

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Hannah

O'Keefe does make a persuasive argument that community college is a real college just like many of the big universities. She explains through the piece that community college students do just as much work, if not more, and earn the same degrees. However, O'Keefe could make the argument stronger by including how sometimes students have to go to these colleges because their grades are not good enough for larger universities to accept them. Also, it would be helpful to make the point that even students who are well-off choose to go to one of these colleges. You do not have to be struggling to choose a community college.

Josh Priddy

(1) I believe that O'Keefe creates a very persuasive argument. Community colleges are too often discredited and looked down upon. O'Keefe makes many valid points in defending community colleges. People work hard in community colleges while often balancing jobs, families, and other daily struggles. I think O'Keefe could have added stats about community college students moving on to four year universities or moving on to full time jobs.

Spencer Jackson

Yes her argument is very persuasive. She talks about how for most of those kids that go to community colleges they don't have a backup school like other kids who go to bigger colleges or university's. This could be for one or two reasons, they didn't make the grades because they messed around too much and didn't care or they can't afford to go to bigger schools. This one applies to me. I am going to a tech school next school year so that I can get some scholarship money that I missed out on not because my familuy can't afford tutiton at a bigger school without the money I just think it is crazy to turn down the money and ask my parents to pay full tuition just so I can be selfish and go to a 4 year college or university right from the start.
One thing that O'Keefe could improve I think is by saying what community college she worked at because saying that even though she didn't go to a community college but she did work at one without stateing the name of the community college and where it is doesn't help her credibility iin my mind because she could just be saying it to sound credible.

Nana

The writer/speakers argument really isn't an effective persuasive argument to me. I think that O'Keefe does bring up some good points at times such as Community colleges not priding themselves on the 10% acceptance rate but an open door policy instead. That could make someone feel a little more at ease with going to that kind of College. I could really use some more key strong facts/biased opinions by the author that answers my question as to why are community colleges truly not on the same level as bigger universities? After reading the piece I sorta get an understanding on this claim but I do think it could leave me with more of a better one. She possibly could have added more stats or simply that ANYONE can choose a Community College. Wealthy, Poor, Most intelligent, Less intelligent etc...

Cole Dickerson

1. O'Keefe's argument is persuasive because she worked in a community college and saw how hard many of the students worked towards their diplomas. O'Keefe could have made her argument stronger by adding an individual's story in her writing so the reader can make a personal connection to the story. Overall, O'Keefe's essay is very persuasive because it gives many reasons to why community college is the same or even better than a "real college" like how community college graduates can get jobs after they graduate.

Walker

1. I agree with O'Keefe's assertion that community college is in fact "real college." Her argument is effective in shedding light on the daily life of most community college students. Between taking college classes, working a part-time job for extra money, and family responsibilities, community college students work just as hard as students at larger universities. I think her argument could have been made stronger by including a specific student's story of their experiences at a community college. This would help portray the daily life at a community college and prove that community college is "real" by showing a real person's experience.

Amari Whiteside

I completely agree with O'Keefe. Community college is not something to get looked down upon at all . I think that finishing high school and moving on to college period is a major accomplishment. O'Keefe could have added more information to back up his argument including statistics and actually surveying college students. I love that O'Keefe did not slander people who are actually in major four year universities as well.

AnaTrabold

(5) I do believe that choosing the school I will be attending will change the course of my life due to many things. Since I am going to a smaller school I won't have to pay as much and I won't have tons of student loans after I graduate. Also, since I have already taken college credit classes in high school I will be able to knock out hours in my first year and begin taking more classes that is based on my major. Now that I will be able to focus more on my major I will be a step ahead from my friends attending a four-year college. Even though community colleges are looked down upon, many people need to realize how much they would benefit them in the long run.

Leigh

I believe O'Keefe did a nice job of persuading people to believe community college is real college. She made the point that even if it is a community college students are still earning degrees and going to classes and working and paying real money to go to these community colleges. She made her argument stronger by starting that some people physically don't have the time to go off to "real college", some students have jobs or families that they need to take care of. For some people community college is just a better option if it's all they need to get where they want to be in life.

Juan Pablo Noriega

1. Yes, O'Keefe is very persuasive she is changing how people view community college. She is persuasive because she makes a lot of strong points on how community college is just as good. O'Keefe said, "Sixty-one percent attend part-time; a majority of them work." When she says this she is making the point that most of the community college students are hardworking. If the students are like this it makes community college sound better making it seem like students at a four year do not work as hard.

Chtulu the Destroyer

(5) O'Keefe's essay is not only interesting, it hits the nail right on the head. In many ways, the notion of "real college" is a connection to our lineage of academic snobbery as a means of class distinction; it is a way many people are able to distinctly call themselves "better" or "more educated."

O'Keefe reminds us - you know, the pointy-headed, liberal, New York Times reading folk - that the attendees of community colleges often come with important commitments (full-time work, their own families, transportation needs) beyond the classroom and social commitments typical of the "real college" student. Committing to such a balancing act in many ways exceeds the typical demands of "real college" undergraduate time. In my own undergraduate experiences, the most difficult issues never required me to think much beyond myself; if I needed help with a paper, I could walk five minutes from my dorm to the writing center in the library. If I needed an extension on a paper, I could meet with my professor at her or his convenience. If I failed a class, I could simply retake it the next semester with a slight adjustment to my financial aid package and social agenda.

It's clearly not reasonable to argue that students should not aspire to those places O'Keefe calls "real college." After all, the education received at the Harvads, Yales, Browns, and state flagship universities of the world are often high-level, demanding, and rewarding that provide special knowledge required in professions like engineering and teaching.

These jobs, however, are no more or less vital than the work supported by community college curriculum. As O'Keefe explains, the joy associated with graduation is not only the achievement of goals, but an affirmation that these students' "real work force programs and go straight to real jobs. And by the way, they make real money and real contributions to the economy and their communities"

Choosing academic snobbery over inclusion ignores the authentic and meaningful learning going on on the community college campus, and denigrates the accomplishments of those in whom we in the academic community should have the most pride.

Payton and Kelly

O’Keefe is persuasive in her argument because she uses her personal experience as someone who went to an university and then worked at a community college. She asks her reader to imagine adding certain things that those who go to a community college might have to do in addition to their school work. She uses this to show how they can juggle more in their time which makes them more likely for them to be hire. She includes the point that, "One former community college president I know was asked if her dream job was to be president at Harvard. And she said that while it’s clearly a special place, the students who attend Harvard would likely be successful with or without that university. Whereas for many of the students who attended her college, there was no backup school. Their lives were changed fully and completely by community college.” She also ends by saying next time you see someone going to a community college tell them you are proud of them. She could have a students personal experience at a community college and what they say about their experience there.

Vanilla Ice

1) We consider her argument to be very persuasive, she brings up good points of views about how community college students have to jumble more than "real" college students. She also says that it has better real life work, rather than just sitting in a classroom all day they get real hand on experience. She could've made her arguments stronger by pointing out the distractions that real college offers and how that when yore enrolled in community college you are busy with other things ad don have time to worry about those distractions.

Labresha

(5) Kristen, Kaitlyn, Amber, and I are all attending colleges that are not community colleges. We have all taken AP and or dual credit classes and been on the path of advanced classes since middle school. We have all worked hard to get where we are and get accepted to the colleges that we have applied to. This last year of high school has kind of shaped us and prepared us or college classes, but in most ways we have still been cradled. When we actually go to college the way the teachers may teach their class and direct their class will probably be totally different from what we have gotten used to during our undergraduate years. O'Keefe argues that community colleges are real colleges and persuades very well, but also gets into how their outside life can shape their lives' as well. However, outside life and hard-work can happen in colleges that are not community.Either way you have to adapt to a lot of changes that you may not be used to.

Ashli, Julissa, Rachel

1) In O'Keefe's argument she is trying to persuade others to not deliberate about the idea that community college is not of the same standards as "real" colleges. Those who go to community colleges are just as good as those who go to "real colleges". They are just as likely to obtain a high paying occupation as those who attend "real" colleges. She also gives a good point that those who go to community colleges may have bigger responsibilities like having a family, transportation issues, and having a job.

Luke Gibson

O'Keefe is making a strong argument for the idea that community college is a "real" college. O'Keefe says that these students are paying real money to attend these schools, and in return, they make real money which contributes to the real economy. This argument is strong because it grabs the attention of the working class, which is most all adults in society. Something O'Keefe can add to make her argument more persuasive is some statistics regarding the price of flagship universities against the community colleges, and how the salaries of those degrees represent the tuition of different universities.

Sea Turtle Poachers

I would consider a community college more of a sub college than a full on college particularly because the programs are indeed funded and developed differently and also because of the community colleges have more of an aspiring reputation than the fully developed reputations of the full blown universities.

In response to question 5, I think that where you go to college definitely affects the future because, as I said before, the reputations of schools will matter in job application and future projects. I would say that it also makes a large difference where you go to college because programs are more developed and education is better provided at real universities.

Holly Cooke

Holly, Kaylee, Joey: 2) O’Keefe's assertion that people in the US can be divided into “people who believe in community colleges and people who dismiss and even diminish them," is a valid statement because many people view community colleges as a place where less-educated people go in order to get a low-paying job and avoiding the stresses of getting a better education at a big 4-year college. However, community colleges hold the same academic standings and education for people who are not as financially able to spend thousands of dollars on college. Some people have other responsibilities and simply cannot afford to be a full time student. Some have parents they have to assist and take care of financially, some have part-time jobs, and others simply do not want to spend that kind of money for the an education they can receive on the same level for less. We believe that community college is important, effective, and holds the same educational benefits for less. They also provide opportunities for students who, without a community college in their area, would most likely end up without anything further than a high school diploma.

NJTSA

1. Yes O'Keefe is very persuasive in her argument of community college being a real college. She gives her views and is very persuasive in saying that community college is a college just like any other 4 year school. She shows how most people who attend community college work and attend part-time. Those who attend community college, go to school, work and maintain a life, unlike some who go to a "real college". Her argument would have been stronger if she would have included some stories from people who attended a community college and maybe some statistics on how people do in the work field after they graduate from community college.

Make America Dank Again - Bernie Sanders

I agree

Kristin O'Keefe

Interesting to read everyone's perspectives on my article. I agree with those who advocate adding additional stats and stories; those would indeed strengthen the article. One of the challenges I had was a word count limitation. So did the article include the very best points? Definitely up for discussion.

The feedback also reminds me how much we are shaped by our own experiences. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Raul

1. I personally think O’Keefe was very persuasive on her argument. She provided very good and specific examples backing up the argument that community colleges deserve the same credit as universities. Her statements on how students at community colleges have a different lifestyle than those of universities was a good point. Even though O’Keefe herself did not have this lifestyle. O’Keefe could have been more persuasive by provided some stories of successful community college alumni and some other piece of information that could accredit community colleges to be as high as universities

Jordan Wohl

1) I do believe that the argument given by O'Keefe was very persuasive. She showed us through giving examples and statistics why going to a community college is just as hard and deserves the same merit as going to a "real college".
2) I agree with O'Keefe when she divides people in ones who support and believe in community colleges and others who don't. Some close-minded people don't view community college as an equal. Just because the name doesn't include the phrase "university" or "academy" and the costs are much cheaper than many schools, community colleges still provide an education to students that are willing to go. I definitely am on the side of the argument that believes community colleges are of value. All education is worthy of reward, no matter if it is from a community college or somewhere else.
3) By stating that she had not been an attendee of community college, it somewhat weakens her argument. She then follows up her statement with saying that she worked in a community college, therefor she was able to see the struggles that the students who attend community college endure.
4) In Addison's writing, she talked about how she attended a community college, and from there she was able to apply and attend the University of Privilege. This shows and backs up O'Keefe's statement that community college is useful. It was able to open doors and help Addison get accepted to a university that, had she not attended community college, she might have not been accepted to.
5) By dual enrolling at a community college, I am able to take higher level classes than offered at my high school. I can use these classes to my advantage and gain more knowledge, and take the lessons I am learning on to further things. Also, by dual enrolling in community college, this will hopefully help me get into other universities to continue my education after high school.

MLR

While the author does indeed make a persuasive argument that community college is not to be looked down upon, I would have liked to see more on why people look down upon community college and look up to the higher colleges.. She effectively communicates about privilege and how community college should not be discredited given how it allows opportunity to those who are not able to attend expensive universities. Community college provides an education to those struggling, and it may even be better than some other "real" colleges people talk about, but I feel as though the author fails to explain the the similarities and difference in education between "real" colleges and community colleges.

Caroline Drouillard

University names are highly overrated, and I will tell you why. When I began earning my undergraduate degree I remember applying to several schools across Pennsylvania. Of the many schools I applied to I remember picking my county’s community college, and thinking “this is just in case my plan doesn’t fall through”. Surely enough when the acceptance letters started to roll in I got accepted into my first choice school, Widener University. I remember my family members and I just being thrilled that I didn’t have to go to ‘community college’. It became instilled in me that community college were for ‘losers’ and for people who ‘didn’t try hard enough’ in school. A lot of people even referred to it as 13th grade to insinuate that it was simply a continuation of high school and not ‘real’ college. It wasn’t until I failed out of my nursing program and I had to attend my local college was when I truly realized the value of their education. I learned a lot of skills and information that I am able l apply in my school and workplace. Till this day, I still can say that going to that college was some of the best education I received in the many colleges I’ve went to.

Kristin O’Keefe, the author of ‘Real people, real college: Kristin O’Keefe on academic snobbery’ made a very persuasive argument upon how undervalued a community college education is. O’Keefe utilizes statistics that showed the reason why the nation has such as high percentage of undergraduates is because 46% of them are enrolled in community college. She even discusses the extreme differences of diversity, culture, and lifestyle of those enrolled in their local colleges verses those who are enrolled in a four-year university.

The reality is the culture in the United States does tend to glorify those who are accepted into ‘name-brand’ schools and tends to discriminate against those who choose to do the latter. Allowing themselves to believe that if I get into this university I will be eligible for the best jobs and highest salary. Which is very far from being true. Many may argue that O’Keefe is not suitable to speak on the subject because she never attended a community college. Though this may be true we also must realize that you don’t have to be a student in order to identify the differences or similarities between the two establishments. Her role as an employee at a community college and being exposed to that culture in correspondence to her own experiences at her four-year college is enough to come to the conclusion that their values are the same. The only difference between Widener University and Delaware County Community College is a tuition and a name.

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